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Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
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seasider Offline
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Post: #136
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
So much money going out of the club it would appear! We knew this already though deep down we just weren't allowed to say it.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 15:55 by seasider.)
Yesterday 15:54
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In Oyston We Rust Offline
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Post: #137
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
Seasider - Don't you mean Rod Dyer ?
Yesterday 15:55
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seasider Offline
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Posts: 55,388
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Post: #138
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
(Yesterday 15:55)In Oyston We Rust Wrote:  Seasider - Don't you mean Rod Dyer ?

I do. I was reading the comments on AVFTT and Mr Cherry was stuck in my mind.
Yesterday 15:57
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tangerinejezza Away
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Posts: 22,637
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Post: #139
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
(Yesterday 15:54)seasider Wrote:  So much money going out of the club it would appear! We knew this already though deep down we just weren't allowed to say it.

People sued for saying these things. And it's now coming out as true.
They really did think themselves untouchable.
Yesterday 16:34
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Leesthedaddy Offline
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Post: #140
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
(Yesterday 16:34)tangerinejezza Wrote:  People sued for saying these things. And it's now coming out as true.
They really did think themselves untouchable.

It's all fucking bullshit mate.
Money & clout are all that won them battles, not justice.
Yesterday 18:26
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Leesthedaddy Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
This is my favourite thread ever on BHS.
I just wish it was more active because it's got me so so excited.
Yesterday 20:51
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Nobber Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
(Yesterday 20:51)Leesthedaddy Wrote:  This is my favourite thread ever on BHS.
I just wish it was more active because it's got me so so excited.

Me too.
Yesterday 20:54
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GynnSquarePhoenix Online
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Post: #143
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
Following lunch break - Thursday

FC-Refers to the witness statement of RD and para 7 detailing reference to the 2 inter-company loans to Segesta and Hotel companies.
‘’these loans are not to the detriment of BFC’’ You say Mr D
RD-correct
FC-refers to the loan documentation in the binders and says along the lines of ‘’where BFC has agreed, BFC will lend up to £30m with loan repaid as set out’’
RD-previous loans have been rolled-up
FC-The roll-up had already taken place and £28.6M already lent to Segesta therefore why does it say ‘’will lend up to £30m’’? Why are they forward looking when the money already lent?
RD- Don’t know-I didn’t draw them up
FC-Any reader might agree that this relates to a future loan
RD-It’s possible
FC-and the same wording is used for the Hotel company loan
FC-Explains that RD has signed the both loan agreements in different capacities. Acting for the lender in one and borrower in the other.
FC-Why did you sign like this?
RD-Probably because I can sign as Company Secretary for BFC ltd and in a different capacity for the others
FC-Did this raise a conflict of interest with you?
RD-N0. This is what we did
FC-Should those agreements have been reviewed by the Board of BFC Ltd?
RD-I think they were
FC-Do not guess
RD-No
FC-refers to the witness statement of RD para 8
FC-There are lots of assets in BFC Ltd-player, contracts and share in football league and income form the Premier League at the time
RD-Yes
FC-As regards the stadium, BFC has the legal right to use the stadium rent free to Segesta
RD-makes reference to ‘chasing a letter’ here although I am not sure of the context in my notes
FC-The 2010 BFC to Segesta loan accounts for use of income generating assets including East Stand, South stand and SW corner. Did you consider the impact of these and work out a fair rental value if had to pay rent on additional parts of stadium.
(not sure what FC was getting at here)
RD-No
FC-Did you consider the cost of advancing £30m to Segesta?
RD-What do you mean by that?
FC-If it could use that money for other purposes (observation- perhaps spending on players?) and was it is the best interests of BFC Ltd of advancing that sum interest free rather than use for other purposes?
The Judge interjects and clarifies there were alternatives other than lending to Segesta
FC-Refers to witness statement of RD again para 10
FC-You talk about the use of loans to pay off debts from the construction of North and NW stand-were these BFC Ltd debts?
RD-No- Segesta
FC-You say it would be difficult to find a construction company to finish the stadium whilst Protoplan loans outstanding. You were involved in this loan?
RD-Yes
FC-The debts of Protoplan were to people who had provided materials etc.-in those circumstances was it your view that this was an impediment because of the inter-company debt?
RD-It’s possible if they see a £4.2m loan outstanding
FC-Was this a concern at the time and was there any difficulty in getting work done previously on the stadium?
RD-Previously we didn’t use Segesta or Protoplan but used the Promenade Construction and Management Companies. We had to give proof of funds. Segesta had them anyway (RD then corrects himself and says BFC Ltd had the funds)
FC-How was the £4.2m categorised over time? In Nov 2010 an e-mail from RD to NM described Segesta costs in constructing stadium as ‘advanced management fee’ on balance sheet-Why?
RD-This resulted from a discussion on the options
FC-This was not an option. This is how they were shown
RD-Yes
FC-On Mr Cherry’s advice?
RD-Yes. The loan had just started from BFC to Segesta and we were discussing with Mr Cherry how to show this. We kept them in the Management Accounts for only 3 months and shown as ‘advance management fee’
FC-Changed because KO listened to NM?
RD-Yes. NM was clear that the loan should not be recorded as ‘advance management fee’ rather than a loan. By the time the draft accounts were prepared it was re-categorised as a loan
FC-goes on to talk about the Service Agreement in 2010 whereby the service accommodation income remains the property of Segesta although at their discretion this can be left to use by BFC ltd.
FC-Do you think BFC should have been given a legal agreement to income in the 2010 agreement
RD-Yes. It could have been expanded upon.
FC-Now refers to para 10 of the witness statement and the SE corner stand and hotel.
FC-Where you aware of Nm authorising amounts to finish off non-seating areas?
RD-He was there in the offices at the time
FC-Did BFC Ltd benefit from the new seating?
RD-Yes
FC-Do you recall anyone carrying out a calculation of the £3.2m loan on seating part and hotel part?
RD-Yes by a project management company
FC-Was this put to the Board as it was funded by BFC Ltd?
RD-Not to the BFC Board
FC goes on to talk about the Travelodge
FC-Who was selling the Travelodge to Segesta
RD-Owen Oyston
FC-You do not say so in your statement
RD-NM did not object as much to this transaction and loan of £4.9m as he did for the £4.2m loan
FC-Would you of expected NM to be consulted?
RD-I don’t know
FC-Were you involved in the payment?
RD-I can’t make the payment
FC-On whose instruction was the payment set up?
RD-I seem to recall it was KO.
FC-comments that Rawlinson was used as an advisor and even after NM raised objections has was not included in the internal discussions
RD-I can’t recall if it was discussed with him
FC-Why was he not copied in a Financial Director of the football club?
RD-This was a matter for the board to discuss
FC-refers to e-mail from JR to RD and copied to OO. JR asks when the funds will be available.
RD-When the next tranche is due form the Premier League
FC-Why did you not copy in NM as Financial Director?
RD-not think about it at the time
An e-mail was subsequently sent to JR to confirm the transaction
FC-You copied in the Oystons but not NM?
RD-No
FC-Did you not think he would like to know £4m+ had been transferred as he had objected to it?
RD-This was a matter for Karl
FC-Karl was driving what information should be shared with NM
RD-That’s not a fair summary
FC-In consideration of the Travelodge loan repayment was at the absolute discretion of the borrower. Who was involved in preparing the loan document?
RD-Jim Rawlinson I think
FC-Do you recall seeing this at the time?
RD-A draft version I think
FC-Was the wording unusual?
RD-I though repayments would take place
FC-You say in your statement this loan was agreement was for the benefit of the football club do you stand by that?
RD-Yes as repayments could be made
FC-BFC Ltd should benefit from £250k annual rental income from Travelodge but does not as this is at the absolute discretion of Segesta.
FC-Do you know why Segesta has not decided to give £250k each year to BFC? Whose decision was it?
RD-The Directors of Segesta. I thought it was a good deal at the time.
FC-If it was a true benefit why did not BFC buy the Travelodge from OO?
RD-I don’t know
FC-BFC would then have received £0.5m rent each year. This clearly would have been in the best interest of BFC. BUT VB would then have a 20% stake!!!
FC-refers to para 22 of witness statement
FC-As of May 2014 there was still £5.5m of the £28m loans in cash at the bank. You say this was to protect BFC in the event of economic climate. Different banks used for Group funds to protect in the event of bank problems similar to 2008-(this is my view here)
Fc-There was nothing stopping BFC opening another account with a different bank to deposit these funds.
RD-It is difficult for football clubs to open bank accounts
FC-Is your evidence football clubs find it hard to find stock brokers to diversify?
RD-I wouldn’t explore that. Not my decision.
FC-Who’s would it be?
RD-Owen Oyston
FC-What happens to the interest from the £5.5m
RD-There is very little interest
FC-Has any of this money been invested in stocks?
RD-Yes
FC-Who gets the profit?
RD-Segesta
FC refers to para 6 of the witness statement
FC-You say VBFA never excluded from company activity. Do you stand by that?
RD-Yes
FC-refers to a letter from NM. Paraphrase ‘I request explanations and why a board member not aware before a transfer of £13.6m made’’. OO replies along the lines of ‘’are you serious or is this April Fool’s day?’’ FC also refers to requests for financial information made numerous times and no response from RD. Bear in mind RD is a financial accountant and NM is the Financial Director and therefore working for NM
FC-Why did you not respond to the requests for information?
RD-Some of it was impossible to supply. Some information was given. E.g. profit and loss statement. It was also addressed to Karl and not for me to assume.
FC-You were instructed not to share any information without KO say so
RD-I am not sure this was the case with NM-maybe it applied to KV
FC-We will come on to that later
FC-You had not provided copies of loan agreements or details of money transfers to Segesta as requested by NM
RD-You were well aware NM was asking for this information
FC-Karl would have been dis-pleased if you had provided the information
RD-He asked via Karl
FC- refers to documents in binder and NM note of the Jan 2012 Board Meeting He quotes Nm comments that the Company Secretary (RD) had regained trust and allowed to participate in Board Meeting again
RD-I didn’t know I had lost trust
FC-You didn’t attend any in 2010 or 2011. From our records there were at least 3-maybe more
RD-This is because they were held in London
FC-It’s remarkable as Company Secretary for a period of 2 years you did not attend Board Meetings
RD-I reported to NM as Financial Director
FC-You were excluded because you approached VB and enquired about a possible bonus.
RD-No. Mr B came to Blackpool and saw all the senior staff. In fact he told me off for making a late payment to Burnley
FC-Could VB only talk to staff when Karl not there?
RD-Ask Karl
FC-Was Karl upset
RD-Can’t recall
FC-Can you recall Karl being unhappy that you attended a meeting with VB?
RD-He was unhappy that we all attended
FC-refers to Jan 2012 and NM asking for a detailed explanation of management accounts and entries described as ‘advance management fees’
FC-NM asked if there were any written agreements in place.
RD-KO/OO says they are still being prepared
FC-Is it fair to say that you were aware the loans to Segesta (or Advance Management fees0) were part of a broader dispute and KO was handling this?
RD-Ye. NM reign was coming to an end
FC-You were not to respond to any requests for information from NM
RD-Not necessarily
FC-You were not prepared to give information to your Financial Director were you despite numerous requests from him to you and Karl
Cross examination continues in this vain
FC-Do you recall why it was left so late to file accounts?
RD-They were often late
FC-Any recollection of KO leaving to the last minute to submit these?
RD-No recollection
FC-OO excluded himself from voting on the £11m transfer because of the conflict of interest. But his wife and Karl did vote
FC-Any thoughts on this?
RD-No
FC-Do you recall how £11m figure arrived at?
RD-No
FC-No explanation why £11m arrived at?
FC-did you not think that at least a 1 pager detailing how the £11m was arrived at was appropriate
RD-That was up to the Directors
FC-NM was extremely upset
RD-He had not spoken to me about it
FC-then refers to the minutes of the meeting with HMRC
FC-do you recall the meeting
RD-Yes. Ian Cherry was unable to agree the minutes and submitted his own
FC-Did you object to IC and say you prefer HMRC minutes to the meeting
RD-Did not think it relevant or important at the time
FC-Did you go thru the minutes to see where IC got it wrong
RD-I did not say ‘got it wrong’ just that I prefer the HMRC version
FC-Mr Cherry says OO did not play a day to day role in BFC affairs. This contradicts HMRC version. Also states he rarely attend Board Meeting but in fact he had attended most meetings. Did he give a written undertaking to the Premier League to the effect that he takes little or no part in the day to day affairs of BFC LTD.?
RD-I don’t think so. My understanding is that it was a verbal agreement with the Football League. 2 separate bodies
FC-Given and accepted or just offered?
RD-Not sure

Finished for the day and to resume with RD for about an hour so tomorrow
Yesterday 21:27
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Magic147 Offline
Not a penny more

Posts: 13,878
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #144
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
Getting spicy.

Tell you what, it might not just be the Oystons who are fucked here.

If I was a financial professional (and I am), I wouldn't want my name anywhere near the sentence, "HMRC have been misled"...
Yesterday 21:29
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GynnSquarePhoenix Online
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Post: #145
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
Most of the above points to Karl and Owen being shady as fuck when 'loaning' out their unexpected pot-o-gold..in my opinion.

I can see how someone looking in from the outside without all the details of the related companies could construe the actions as asset stripping from the football side. Not that I would ever make that claim, because income from suing the fans might be all they have left once this is all over.
Yesterday 21:43
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Magic147 Offline
Not a penny more

Posts: 13,878
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #146
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
Just for reference, and without any suggestion that this is what's happened, or intimation that this applies to BFC or the Oystons, here is the definition of asset stripping...

Quote:asset stripping
noun
the practice of taking over a company in financial difficulties and selling each of its assets separately at a profit without regard for the company's future.
Yesterday 21:50
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Nobber Offline
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Posts: 391
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Post: #147
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
(Yesterday 21:29)Magic147 Wrote:  Getting spicy.

Tell you what, it might not just be the Oystons who are fucked here.

If I was a financial professional (and I am), I wouldn't want my name anywhere near the sentence, "HMRC have been misled"...
What do you do in the world of finance profession?
Yesterday 21:53
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McPoolmob Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
Well if they are found guilty of asset striping and misleading the HMRC then any fans previously suid by them need to get their money repaid.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 22:22 by McPoolmob.)
Yesterday 21:56
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Magic147 Offline
Not a penny more

Posts: 13,878
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #149
RE: Blackpool FC high court battle with Belekon - thread
(Yesterday 21:53)Nobber Wrote:  What do you do in the world of finance profession?

Well, I split my time between being a senior specialist financial guru in charge of operations for the biggest conglomerate in the universe, and fluffer for Jennifer Lopez (she likes her nipples to be nice and hard for each of her live performances).
Yesterday 22:03
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