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Spain, civil unrest.
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
No, far far from over!
The Catalan government issued 'deferred' independence last Thursday, and the Madrid government gave the Catalan president to Monday morning to 'explain' himself satisfactorarily whether he declared independence or not. His reply was a call for negotiation and not an answer to the question. He now has till Thursday morning to 're-explain' himself. That is unlikely ...
So the Spanish government will almost surely trigger their Article 155, which can do away with the regional government and boss directly from Madrid. They'd do that probably to call new regional government elections where the independents hold a slim majority. And (maybe) throw a few 'rebels' (as seen from madrid anyway) in prison for supposedly disloyalty to the Spanish constitution. But estimates now say that after recent events of the police etc. the independent vote is likely to go up, so that holding new 'official' elections would not resolve anything. To the contrary it might make the independence vote politically stronger!
17-10-2017 13:17
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whitstabletangerine Online
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Post: #47
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
Looks as though you were correct regarding Article 155, Madrid look set to take powers back from regional government.
They will not like that in Catalonia.
19-10-2017 08:56
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
(19-10-2017 08:56)whitstabletangerine Wrote:  Looks as though you were correct regarding Article 155, Madrid look set to take powers back from regional government.
They will not like that in Catalonia.

Tough for Mardid cos they're not dealing with terrorists like they were with the Basque ETA but a really pacific lot of people with a genuine will for their future...
19-10-2017 13:05
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
BBC News

Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

Starts: Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to impose direct rule on the region. He described it as the worst attack on Catalonia's institutions since General Franco's 1939-1975 dictatorship, under which regional autonomy was dissolved. Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy's plans include the removal of Catalonia's leaders and curbs on its parliament.

Complete article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41710873
21-10-2017 22:08
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Magic147 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
This is going to go tits up, isn't it.
21-10-2017 22:11
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TheSuffolkSeasider Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
So the Catalan Parliament meets this Thursday to decide their plan(s) of action for whatever Madrid decide to do on Friday.

This weekend could get interesting over there...
23-10-2017 11:03
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AylesburyDave Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
(21-10-2017 22:08)daib0 Wrote:  BBC News

Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

Starts: Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to impose direct rule on the region. He described it as the worst attack on Catalonia's institutions since General Franco's 1939-1975 dictatorship, under which regional autonomy was dissolved. Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy's plans include the removal of Catalonia's leaders and curbs on its parliament.

Complete article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41710873

I can't imagine it will end up with a physical confrontation (unless of course the Spanish police get heavy handed again), as presumably for Catalan leaders their best hope is to try and hold the moral high ground, at the same time as making life as difficult for the Spanish government as possible?
23-10-2017 16:32
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
(23-10-2017 16:32)AylesburyDave Wrote:  I can't imagine it will end up with a physical confrontation (unless of course the Spanish police get heavy handed again), as presumably for Catalan leaders their best hope is to try and hold the moral high ground, at the same time as making life as difficult for the Spanish government as possible?

yeah, you're right, but the drawback to independist ideals is the hundreds of Catalan businesses now transferring their fiscal addresses to other parts of Spain ... drowning the CAtalan economy which was up to now the best in the land.

I would have predicted a uniteral declaration of independence by now, but the Catalans are canny (bit like the Scots with money !!) and I believe only this economic drain is holding them back.

How it turns out? Honestly no idea, it could go any way from here. But independence dreams are not going to go away.
23-10-2017 18:45
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McPoolmob Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
http://news.sky.com/story/catalan-leader...n-11099270
26-10-2017 12:04
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TheSuffolkSeasider Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41783289

So, the Catalans declare independence and then the Spanish PM dissolves the Catalan parliament.

I feel things are about to get messy. Spanish flags have been removed from buildings in the region already...how long before it gets violent? Sad-smiley
27-10-2017 19:30
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whitstabletangerine Online
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Post: #56
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
I can't see how Catalonia can go it alone, first of all they use the Euro and the EU members including ourselves for obvious reasons will not recognise them, so what currency will they use, who will they trade with and what league will Barcelona play in.
27-10-2017 21:15
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
now there's talk of political asylum for five of the independence leaders in Belguim. The very thought that it's classed as asylum shows you how bad it's getting; thirty years jail sentences being brandied about by those in Madrid against those who are truly peaceful. Gutted...
30-10-2017 15:45
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
If the UK supports Catalonian independence via an illegal referendum, we're effectively giving the green light to the Scots walking away post-Brexit. It's been said many times that Scotland can't choose to leave the UK and stay in the EU as Spain would oppose their membership (because of Catalonia wanting the same outcome). We therefore have to reciprocate in supporting the Spanish government (however deplorable their actions on the ground have been) - it also politically reduces the effectiveness of Spanish demands over Gibraltar if we're seen to be supporting them during this period.

The outcome of the planned elections could however bring about a change - if a pro-independence candidate wins, the Spanish government will almost be forced to hold a formal (legal) referendum or else give some major concessions to Catalonia regarding further devolved powers. This whole mess is far from over....
31-10-2017 08:47
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
Latest from the BBC:



Catalan independence: Spain high court summons dismissed leader

Spain's high court has summoned sacked Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and 13 other members of his dismissed government to appear later this week. It also gave them three days to pay a deposit of €6.2m ($7.2m) to cover potential liabilities. The summons comes after Spain's chief prosecutor on Monday said he would press charges including rebellion.

Full report: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41825030



This has only just started !!!
01-11-2017 11:15
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McPoolmob Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Catalonia crisis: Sacked ministers held by Madrid court - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41850094

I don't get why they turned up in court when faced with a possible 25 years jail.
02-11-2017 16:51
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