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Spain, civil unrest.
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
(02-11-2017 16:51)McPoolmob Wrote:  I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Catalonia crisis: Sacked ministers held by Madrid court - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41850094

I don't get why they turned up in court when faced with a possible 25 years jail.
because they're peaceful - going along the Gandhi or Mandela road ...
02-11-2017 22:08
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
CATALONIA ELECTION - December 2017

There is a big problem for PP and Mariano Rajoy now. Beaten out of sight PP were in a night few could have anticipated. Cuidadanos with their whinging leader Ines Arrimadas took probably the great part of the PP vote. Both these parties were calling for ‘real’ elections to end the ‘locura’ (“madness” as they put it). So now we have had the supposed real election. Did she (Arrimadas) win? Not really, she managed just 25.4% of the vote. The two last time together united independence parties scored 43.1% of the votes - not double that, but not far off either - but the fact that each of the two big independence parties went separate this time would appear - as least as long as Madrid wants you to believe - that C’s were the great winners. And so they will still claim there is not a majority for independence. The truths are starting to come out now, not even what I feel is the verging of censorship from Spanish mainstream parties can hold the lid down for much longer.

Let’s take a closer look not just at the seats gained, which is obviously without a doubt an Independence majority (and indeed an improvement on last time), but in the actual number of VOTES themselves. Don’t be fooled by fake statements. Let’s look … Comú (Catalonia in Common) are crucial here - the furthest left supposedly national ‘Spanish’ party there is. Although they look after local regional interests they are fairly close cousins with Podemos (ah, the CUP are left-wing too, but are totally nationalist). Remember that Comú support a referendum on independence, even if many of their supporters are divided on whether independence is really a good thing, but in the name of democracy are certainly supportive - also remember that in the declaration of independence this autumn some of their parliamentary members did indeed vote for outright independence on that fateful day. However, seeing as they are not irrevocably nationalist the centralist government in Madrid pleases itself and tries to fool others and casts all those supporter voters as all unionist Spanish constitutionalists - far from the truth, Comú/Podemos are those who wish most to reform the constitution from top to bottom! As Comú/Podemos and their members are therefore divided on the issue, let’s leave them out of the equation. So, what do we in fact have? These based on 99% vote analyzed -

Independence % voters: 53.5%
Spanish Unionist % voters: 43.5%


Now, what were they (PP and C’s) saying about governing for ALL Catalans? OK, let’s see it please!! By not acting for the majority they are supporting a minority like it were a dictatorship. I rest my case…
(This post was last modified: 22-12-2017 15:25 by daib0.)
22-12-2017 15:24
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whitstabletangerine Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
How do you see Catalonia in five years time then David.
22-12-2017 16:04
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
(22-12-2017 16:04)whitstabletangerine Wrote:  How do you see Catalonia in five years time then David.

that's the hardest question of the decade Whits! I think it could go either way; that the independence voice grows and grows until Europe wakes up to the fact that they may HAVE to face boundary changes in a future, I mean Europe was so different in 1850 and could be well different in 2050 - or Spain maintains a firm foot on the door and the abounding self-belief at present recedes perhaps as youngsters get ever more materialistic and forget about things like 'homelands' and 'belonging' if they're doing very fine Jack ... but my money at present would be on Catalonia becoming a ation at medium distance, say 6 to 10 years. At a population of 7 and a half million and having been for decades the wealthiest region of the Iberian peninsula, why would they fail when they are bigger in population then EU states Denmark, Slovenia, Malta, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Finland, Ireland, Lithuania, Slovakia: and actually not far behind the Czech Republic, Belgium, Greece, Portugal and Sweden? ...
(This post was last modified: 22-12-2017 17:29 by daib0.)
22-12-2017 17:25
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whitstabletangerine Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
With regards to you last paragraph I would have to agree, that is assuming they can apply and stay in the EU, on the other hand, being independent and outside of the EU they could face a similar problem to the UK , that is not knowing how the future trade deals would pan out.
I know there is history between Madrid and the Barcelona region but I just cannot see Spain ever letting go of Catalonia, in fact less likely than the UK handing over Northern Ireland to the Republic.
How far would the Catalans go in seeking independence, would they go the whole hog and take to the streets, when does civil unrest become civil war, let's hope it doesn't come to that.
22-12-2017 18:27
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