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Spain, civil unrest.
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whitstabletangerine Offline
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Post: #1
Spain, civil unrest.
So Catalonia seeks to gain independence from the mother land and calls for a referendum, completely rejected by the Spanish government in Madrid.

Civil unrest, not a civil war as seen in the thirties but interestingly the Catalonia region was the last to fall to the fascists under Franco, but could that be just coincidence.

I can understand Spain not wanting to see Catalonia breaking away, in the same way we perhaps see Scotland leaving the UK, Spain would be weaker economically without the North East region and I feel much the same if Scotland decided to go it's own way.

Ok, we may joke about the Scots but I do believe there is strength in numbers and we would be weaker without them.

There is so much shit in the world today and some pretty poor leaders to boot in various continents that a problem so close to home in Europe is certainly not welcome, I just hope it can be resolved without blood shed.

I had a conversation with the hotel manager where we stayed last weekend in Catalonia and he was adamant that a good number of Catalans were not looking for cessation and believed that being part of Spain was far better in the long run.

George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, about his experiences during the three year civil war is an interesting read, in the meantime let us hope for a peaceful end to all of this, as I said there is far too many incidents taking place in the world today without any more stoking the fire.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 22:20 by whitstabletangerine.)
01-10-2017 14:14
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
My saddest day ever, living in Spain. Here's a quick general explanation from my part.

Catalunya has 16.7% of the total Spanish population - and several million more than Scotland - big, but of course it will never ever have a majority of the MPs on Spanish soil. But Madrid says this independence vote is against the law. It has to be done from Madrid. Up to here good. But where it goes off-course is that any change has to be voted for by ALL Spanish people and not just those from Catalonia. Impossible to go ahead then. Why? Because although Catalunya has 16.7% of the population it produces OVER one-quarter of the wealth of Spain. Politicians and people of other regions are only interested in the economy, we all know that, so they'll NEVER allow a vote like Scotland.

What has really inspired this recent uprising in nationalism is that the Catalans voted for an amplification of autonomy status - and perfectly legally, approved by Madrid! - in 2010. It was widely approved by the regional population. But the PP (right-wing) party got worried that they might now get too much regional power, and went to the high Constitutional Court to get it overturned. And did so. Because the Spanish jurisdiction is very much politically influenced. THAT is what really started to fuel the big independence drive - people thought "if we get no respect for our views and legally binding vote, we might as well go it alone".

Back 10-15 years ago you'd find independence sentiments at about 17-20%. Now it's somewhere between 42 and 58%, depending on which parties they include in the equation. But it's growing VERY fast, 90% of youngsters voting first time want Catalonia as an independent country.

So Mr. Mariano Rajoy has one hell of a problem tonight. This is not going to go away ... far from it.

Scenes like this are truly shocking, towards pacific people - and there are DOZENS of videos now coming out of this type:

https://twitter.com/RitaBosaho/status/91...4130424832

https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status...7910705152

Makes me ASHAMED to have gained dual nationality Cry

David
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 17:52 by daib0.)
01-10-2017 17:49
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Leesthedaddy Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
As always, a very well worded post from you Whits.
I've watched many videos on social media since I woke up of all the goings on in Spain today.
It's a sad situation & a prehistoric attitude towards the people & I also agree with your comparison to Scotland.
01-10-2017 17:53
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whitstabletangerine Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
David thanks for the explanation, I can well imagine it would be a day that you would rather not have witnessed.

I have no idea the consequences if Catalonia actually gained independence although can't see it happening in the short term but how would it continue to export within Europe because as I understand it the region is responsible for a large percentage of Spain's exports and presumably detached from Madrid would also mean being detached from the EU.

Lee, it certainly is a sad situation, I would have thought the best bet for the Spanish government would have been to let them have the referendum, then taken it from there.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 18:47 by whitstabletangerine.)
01-10-2017 18:46
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foggy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
Thanks for the explainer daib0
01-10-2017 19:31
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Magic147 Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #6
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
Firemen form a human shield to protect voters from riot police in Catalunya.

[Image: d2uz06Q.jpg]
01-10-2017 20:35
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
looks like the two leaders of the Catalan regional government are opening up the doors to a possible declaration of outright independence second half of this coming week. The fact that they are not allowed to have a nationally agreed referendum makes them want to use this one, with all its shortcomings, as definitive.

It's not a case of Catalonia being rich and not wanting to help the poorer off regions, this has all to do with Madrid being the big boss and not listening to the Catalan voice during many a year. It's against the capital, but not against any Spanish region as such.

The Basque push has diminished somewhat but there is still a sizeable chunk of the population who are for the cause still which could/might easily reignite if they see a free and successful Catalonia. In fact, I live on the edge of the Basque region, in Navarre ... 
01-10-2017 21:16
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Bally Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
The police are behaving like thugs

https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatalanRefer...4498757632

Sending the police in mob handed with the instructions to stop the voting taking place has caused more injuries to the Spanish public than the Barcelona bombing.
Luckily there have been no reported deaths as yet.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2017 06:13 by Bally.)
02-10-2017 06:05
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seasider Offline
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Joined: Feb 2012
Post: #9
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
Total votes: 2,262,424
Yes: 2,020,140
No: 176,565
Blank: 45,586
Null: 20,129

Shocking video on that tweet; Police hitting Firemen.

https://twitter.com/tinabobuk/status/914744076385357824
02-10-2017 07:37
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daib0 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
before this weekend the independence feel was like Scotland, about 47 to 53%. After these barbarous images it's probably gone up 15%, and the international press have clearly seen what's gone on.

In a new video one can see a couple of policeman deliberately breaking a lady's fingers, then knock her half way down the stairs where they fondle her breats, laughing at each other ... and I thought Stevenage FC was bad enough
02-10-2017 08:54
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whitstabletangerine Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
Franco's ghost still around.
02-10-2017 08:54
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Bally Offline
1 = 20

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Post: #12
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
(02-10-2017 08:54)daib0 Wrote:  In a new video one can see a couple of policeman deliberately breaking a lady's fingers, then knock her half way down the stairs where they fondle her breats, laughing at each other ... and I thought Stevenage FC was bad enough

Police behaving much like they do on Preston New Road.
02-10-2017 09:13
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AylesburyDave Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
I got the feeling that had the Spanish government organised a proper referendum that the result of the vote would have been against independence, but after what went on I am sure many more people will have been persuaded that they would be better off getting shot of the government in Madrid.
02-10-2017 14:00
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GynnSquarePhoenix Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
I heard the fingers breaking statement from the woman...what the fuck is wrong with people "they just looked me in the face and broke them one by one as I screamed". I have to stop looking at news. It does me no good to be informed these days.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2017 14:21 by GynnSquarePhoenix.)
02-10-2017 14:20
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McPoolmob Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
If as is reported Catalonia contributes to 40% of Spain's wealth then they won't be granted independence anytime soon.
02-10-2017 14:28
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